Comments on musings and misadventures: HTT - SAHM Edition

Dear Annonymous/Comment 45,
1. Why, if you hav...

2007-10-11T07:35:00.000-05:00

Dear Annonymous/Comment 45,
1. Why, if you have the courage of your convitions, are you posting anonymously?
2. One kind of mother IS better than the other. There is plenty of statistical evidence (and gospel evidence) to back that up. (Notice I didn't say one is bad and one is good.)
3. Your presumptions and judgement are ASTOUNDING considering you're condemming me for being judgemental!

Someone just linked me to this page, so it's quite...

2007-08-31T01:30:00.000-05:00

Someone just linked me to this page, so it's quite late and maybe no one will ever respond, but I wanted to express my thoughts.

I was encouraged by the reasonable and understanding comments left by the early posters. Then I was sad to see how it degenerated into competitive and judgmental comments about how one kind of mom must be better than another.

My point is that this decision should be made on a case by case basis. To make blanket statements on either side is ridiculous. Self indulgent? Yes, you can say that about the monstrous woman who decides to leave her precious baby to enter the big bad working world so she can buy a bigger house and nice shoes. You could just as easily apply that to the SAHM whose entire goal in life was to get married and have children and therefore never tried to do well at anything - academic, professional, etc, because she was just going to be a SAHM anyway, and why would she need to bother?

Those are extremes, and I happen to believe most people fit somewhere in between.

But if we're going to make polarizing generalizations here, I'm going to defend the working women, because I think they've been unfairly maligned. I think being a SAHM can be a cop-out. Yes, I said it. I think that some women just give up, don't want to think or work hard, and therefore hide behind their husbands and trust them to provide (and hopefully they do). [Disclaimer: I realize children can be hard work. But it's hard in a different sense. If you don't clean your house or bathe your children every day, no one is going to fire you. If your cooking stinks or your child says a bad word, you still get to keep your job. In other words, job security is not an issue,]

If we're using anecdotal evidence, I can think of many young women in the wards I've been over the years that seem to have nothing in their pretty heads other than diapers and baby clothes, car seats and binkys. And I always felt like they looked down on me for pursuing a professional degree and a career. Babies don't stay babies forever, and at some point you're going to have to teach your children more than the ABCs. And my husband tells me that he is glad to have an educated wife who can teach the kids about algebra, political science, making choices, financial realities, and the real world.

There are SAHMs who can't run a household to save their lives, so their husbands work all day and come home and do the cooking and cleaning for them. There are SAHMs who have nannies anyway so they can lunch with their friends and get manicures and "me time." There are SAHMs who spend all morning long reading blogs, and then spend all afternoon at a play group gossiping with their friends while the children run around ignoring them completely. And these are the women who congratulate themselves on the "sacrifices" they make so they can "nurture" their children.

Now that I've been sufficiently rude, I want to emphasize that I was doing it on purpose. I admire many SAHMs for the wonderful things they do, and the sacrifices they make for their children. Most of them are intelligent and thoughtful women who made the conscious decision to spend the formative years at home with their children. And I applaud them for that. In fact, I may follow in their footsteps very soon. I would just rather not have women put into distinct categories: SAHM = GOOD. WORKING MOM = BAD. There are good and bad mothers in both categories. Think about the whole package before judging.

i'm all for staying at home (as already indicated)...

2007-08-29T18:00:00.000-05:00

i'm all for staying at home (as already indicated), but i don't think the proclamation on the family is the basis for making that decision. whatever family arrangement you might have, nowhere in the proclamation on the family does it say that a woman's place is in the home and a man's place is at the office.

"By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children."

who's to say what the definition of "necessities of life" are and what "nuture" means? it no doubt indicates that parents are responsible for raising their children in a team effort, and doesn't really mention anything about a nanny (i'll give you that much), but there is a LOT of room for interpretation. a lot of room for prayerful consideration of what is right for your family. perhaps your husband will stay home and you will go to work. maybe that works out best in your home. i'd just be careful defining our specific roles and where we "belong" by the proclamation. responsibilities are one thing, the way we tackle those responsibilities are very open to interpretation.

(thanks for providing the soapbox mrs. dub... sorry to take a second round at it) :)

this is way late, but very interesting. I agree w...

2007-08-28T18:35:00.000-05:00

this is way late, but very interesting. I agree whole heartedly to acte gratuit. It may be harsh, but she is right. No, saving for college is not vital. I'm sorry, its extra. Too many people today think that things are necessary, when they absolutely are not. We went without cable, cell phones, hi speed internet, etc until it could fit into our single income budget.

And all I have to say is that for the LDS crowd, read the Proclamation to the Family. What does the Prophet of our great church say women should be doing? There most certainly is man's role and women's role. And there is nothing wrong with that. The world wants us to believe that if we aren't bringing in a dollar figure, we have less value. Now, no one would say they believe that, but the anonymous comment that said she was contributing to her families income obviouisly does on some level.

There are exceptions, and only we, as individuals can examine our motives for working or staying home, but as a SAHM I will make sure that my children know how much I love staying home with them. I have my moments of frustration, but I am so worried that all that the YW I work with at church won't want to stay home because of all the complaining we do about it, myself included.

ok, here is my two cents...

first off it is...

2007-08-25T21:32:00.000-05:00

ok, here is my two cents...

first off it is not good to judge either side. There are circumstances for every family. I still stick behind the LDS stance though, because I am LDS.

I did work the first three years while married while my husband was in medical school (no money making), after undergrad and after living in a studio apt and no kids we still barely survived. And that includes that we took out 4 major government loans, still unpaid and in crewing interest, AND two loans from NYU (expensive school). Now my hubby is in residency for 5 years and finally is making some money and I just worked my first year until I had my first child. Now I have two and I have been lucky enough to find a child care place at a health sports club that I work at one day a week (4-5) with my kids. They love it and I do to. It gives us something to do outside of the house. They get the chance to socialize with other kids too. It is not much for the money at all because it doesn't pay much, but we both all enjoy it. I don't feel guilty because it is every little work and my kids are with me, still getting my attention.

I don't know how people work and LEAVE their kids by choice. I just think how and why do you work and leave your child behind with some other care giver you have to pay! That does not make sense. You miss so much of your kids life and they miss out too. they are not selfish to want your time and attention, but you have to be careful if you are being selfish with your time and attention of who (work) you give it too. I am sure if dads (Canada or US) could stay home, some may want to, but I know they could not do anything close to what a mother does. I stick with the LDS Family Proclamation!

If you could work from home, that is great, but why? You are still taking time and attention away from your family.

By the way, my husband's mother worked most of all his lifetime and still does, whereas my mother never worked and stayed home. I loved it. So, we are a little different on that standing. Sometimes he aks if I want to work, but I prefer staying at home with my kids. Some days I am ready to tear my hair out and yell (and I do), but I get through it, and do take breaks (just not work breaks, because being mother is already work and I need a break from working.)

Anonymous,
I went without all those things for ...

2007-08-22T16:16:00.000-05:00

Anonymous,
I went without all those things for the first 6 years of my marriage. Now my husband is doing a residency and we still do without a LOT of luxaries. The ones we do have, we pay for with more student loans. When he finally does start working, we will have an incredible amount of debt to pay off. But for me, it was worth it to stay home.

I don't think working automatically means you're a bad mom or a bad person. But I personally believe it's a bad choice for your children. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

I was fortunate enough to be able to stay home wit...

2007-08-21T13:33:00.000-05:00

I was fortunate enough to be able to stay home with a small business for almost the first four years with Her Maj, but at a certain point it came down to our inability to save for retirement and a college fund. It would be irresponsible to neglect this area and then expect either the state (good luck) or our child to foot the tab when we get older. Since we were (almost) able to live on my husband's salary, I am lucky enough to be able to use money to buy time with a weekly housekeeper. Time that I devote to my girl. It is very easy to make judgements about other people's lives until you live them. For the record I am not "having someone else raise my child", her father and I are responsible for making sure she is educated, develops good manners, social skills, and a sense of right and wrong.

Megan - I agree with you. It is all about prioriti...

2007-08-21T11:14:00.000-05:00

Megan - I agree with you. It is all about priorities. And I think if you choose to stay at home and you can make it work, that is great. I have nothing against stay at home moms.

What I object to is people like acte gratuit making blanket statements like:
"I absolutely don't buy the "it makes me a better mom to be away from my kids" line. It may make you FEEL better, (self indulgence usually does) but it DOESN'T make you a better MOTHER to leave your kids, with someone else, on a regular basis. Mothering is about your kids. NOT YOU!"

That just makes my blood boil. Everyone has their own reasons for doing things. Just because I work, doesn't mean I am less of a mom or selfish in any way. I want my kids to have money for college and I want to have money in a retirement fund. I think that's practical - not selfish.

My point is, you are not a bad mom just because you choose to work.

It comes down to priorities. We all have our own &...

2007-08-21T10:28:00.000-05:00

It comes down to priorities. We all have our own & the order we choose to do so may be different. If it is important enough to stay home you can make it happen.

I stalk your blog often & usually sign in unde...

2007-08-21T10:26:00.000-05:00

I stalk your blog often & usually sign in under anonymous but decided what the heck.

anonymous - we go w/o cell phones, we have 1 car & we live off of student loans. I could work, but the money I would make would barely cover day care (and now that we are expecting #2 it wouldn't cover that.) So there are people who would rather go w/o. My mom worked growing up & I hated it. I am an adult & she still works & I still hate it. I think I am as excited for her to retire as she is. She did a great job of balancing home & family, but I still feel cheated to an extent.

acte gratiut - is it "self indulgent" to pay the m...

2007-08-21T09:34:00.000-05:00

acte gratiut - is it "self indulgent" to pay the mortgage, save for your childrens' college tuition or teach your kids the value of working hard? Don't be absurd. This isn't 1950 and it isn't selfish to work. Women are not bad mothers if they work outside the home and leave their kids with a nanny or daycare. I don't work because it makes me feel better - I work because of the financial benefits and I feel it's my responsibilty to contribute to my family's income. AND I want to show my kids that there is a value to working outside the home. AND we can go on vacation and have cable TV, 2 cars and cell phones, etc. Do you go without any of these things? Does anybody you know sacrifice these things? I doubt it.

Also, do you think it's so easy to get a job during school hours only? Or to get back into the workforce after you've been out for so long? I think you're living in a dream land. Jobs with cushy schedules are not so easy to come by. Maybe I have a different perspective because I live on the east coast and the cost of living is so much higher than Utah, but I don't know many moms that have the luxury of staying at home until their kids are in school.

And furthermore, while I'm preaching, you should a...

2007-08-16T14:19:00.000-05:00

And furthermore, while I'm preaching, you should all eat more fiber.

There. I said it.

Since I'm two days late and your readers have sure...

2007-08-16T13:35:00.000-05:00

Since I'm two days late and your readers have surely moved on to more current posts, I think I'll be blunt and un-p.c. I agree there are exceptions. Of course there are. But I think too many women (and families) try to make themselves into the "exception" for purely selfish reasons.

I absolutely don't buy the "it makes me a better mom to be away from my kids" line. It may make you FEEL better, (self indulgence usually does) but it DOESN'T make you a better MOTHER to leave your kids, with someone else, on a regular basis. Mothering is about your kids. NOT YOU!

Of course women need breaks and of course staying home can be horrible and exhausting and unfullfilling. But it's not about what's best for you! You brought this kid into the world, now do what is best for your KID! Wait until your baby is in school, then go back to work during school hours if you must.

As for the money reason, of course bills need to be paid, but I would ask this: Are you living beyond your means? Do you have 2 cars, pay for cell phones, cable, internet access and other expenses that could be eliminated? Because believe it or not, those things are luxuries and people really CAN live without them!

Okay, shutting up now. Just wanted to vent my personal feelings on the matter.

oh man,... you DIDN'T just say "canada stinks"!?! ...

2007-08-16T10:25:00.000-05:00

oh man,... you DIDN'T just say "canada stinks"!?! hold me back girls! :)

as always, i'm late to the party. but i thought i'...

2007-08-16T00:12:00.000-05:00

as always, i'm late to the party. but i thought i'd share my 2 cents....

growing up i never really thought of myself as the mom type. i figured i'd have kids, but i wanted to be a business woman.

when i got married my hubby had just started law school, we had just bought a condo, so babies weren't really an option, not that i wanted them so early in the marriage.

a couple of years go by, i was still working, but bored, we still had some more law school not to mention the bar, so still no babies... i decided to go back and get my MBA. with 2 semesters until i finished, i had my first. i stayed home for 6 months, but then had to go back to work. to my total surprise, it was the hardest thing i ever had to do. but, there was no way around it. my hubby still had to study for the bar, there was no way he could work, and money doesn't grow on trees. it was sad to leave my baby with someone else, but had to be done.

i worked for as long as i could possibly stand it. 6 months. it was hard, it definitely got easier, but i am much happier at home. but, i now work from home. which is both a blessing and a curse. i love the flexibility, the extra money it provides, and the ability to use my brain occasionally. but, i hate that i feel like i always should be doing something. like right now... probably shouldn't be blogging, probably should be working.

if someone were to ask me... i'd say stay home.

Women should stay at home with the kids. They sho...

2007-08-15T20:43:00.000-05:00

Women should stay at home with the kids. They should also cook and clean. Men should bring home the money. Isn't that the traditional '50s family we should all be?

P.S. Canada stinks and no we shouldn't pay women for going out on maternity. Should we pay everyone that has to be out of work for an extended medical leave? That is called Short Term Disability. Sign up for it.

I say the issue is REALLY SKINNY black and white s...

2007-08-15T06:35:00.000-05:00

I say the issue is REALLY SKINNY black and white stripes. generally I think it's better for mama to be home. BUT...

I always thought I would stay at home. until I became a dental hygienist. then I thought - hey, this is the perfect job, maybe I will work one or two days a week. until I had baby cutest. now I never want to "work" again. unless the man dies and I absolutely have to. but let's not go into how devastating that would be.

so yes, I am all for being at home. but then I also feel torn. like maybe I SHOULD be working here and there. and yes, the $ would be nice. and yes, wouldn't I be working on my talent, my gift? using the education I have gotten? those are all good things, right? yes, I got great fulfillment from my work. but then I get the GREATEST fulfillment from the little guy & don't want to miss a minute of him. at least until he's maybe in school.

it does make me sad though, watching/hearing some of my friends work so they can have the nicer house (they admit they can't afford without both spouses working) and the nicer car. but these mama-friends of mine are SO BUSY & ALWAYS stressed out about the time away & then trying to catch up with the home and family & the rest of life. at that point, when it's basically for EXTRA & increasing your stress and chaos levels more than anything else, I think the mamas should stay home and be able to have time to enjoy the little ones.

I'm glad my mommy was home with me. and I'm glad she's still home when I call and need someone to talk to! and I want to be like her.

I'm a SAHM and loving it. Mostly. Honestly, I neve...

2007-08-15T00:36:00.000-05:00

I'm a SAHM and loving it. Mostly. Honestly, I never considered the possibility of working once I started having kids. I got a degree and worked for five years after college and once I got pregnant I started counting down to "retirement." (Ha ha.) I miss the social aspect of working, but I'm glad I can feel like I'm doing something meaningful with my time now, even if "meaningful" often comes down to changing diapers and singing the ABC song over and over (and over).

Overall, I'm a gray kind of girl. I understand that there are extenuating circumstances where moms sometimes need to work, for whatever reason. I just can't see letting someone else raise my child. It breaks my heart to even think of it.

Interesting topic. The transition to motherhood h...

2007-08-14T23:03:00.000-05:00

Interesting topic. The transition to motherhood has been a very hard one for me. When my daughter was a month old, I was ready to be back at work. I worked extending my maternity leave for four months, toggling babysitting with my husband's graduate school schedule. I am grateful my husband and sister had the chance to stay home with my daughter and get to know her, sadly an opportunity which he or she will probably never have again. I am also grateful for the opportunity I had to go back to work to help me transition to more to stay-at-home schedule.

I have decided to stay home since, only working part time. This has been hard decision with a husband still in school. I feel don't feel like this issue is black and white. Although I think staying at home is the ideal situation for every family and child, I don't feel good about using government programs to provide my stay-at-home lifestyle as well.

Definately a grey area, and one that require a lot of prayer and soul searching...especially when hubbies are still in school.

jamie,
i too thought - wow dub, hip with the op...

2007-08-14T18:57:00.000-05:00

jamie,
i too thought - wow dub, hip with the oprah schedule. i have to say that i love being at home with my kids. i get to have more freedom in my day then if i had to sit in a cubicle. my husband has worked hard for this. the worst of it was when he had 15 credit hours of school, an internship and two jobs. i was at home at that time with a two year old and a newborn. it was hard. anyways,
i am all for doing something for yourself. i have a catering job that allows some personal growth, income, and hopefully more $ in the future. although, i know that i would be physically ill to have to leave my boys every day 8-5. one last thing, there are those lazy men who would rather have their wife go to work than pick up a second job.

Okay, Mrs. Dub. You are so hip and happening. Or ...

2007-08-14T17:58:00.000-05:00

Okay, Mrs. Dub. You are so hip and happening. Or maybe it is because you are in Chicago along with this show. But I just saw the last 10 minutes of Oprah and today's show is about THIS topic. Could it be that the Oprah show producer's are checking your blog for Hot Topics for their program? :) You have no idea how popular you have become!!

I didn't see the whole show, but from what I did see, it was very interesting. Like one mom who chose to work was talking about how she totally regretted missing out on her children's first words, steps, etc. Another mom who chose to stay home with her kids regrets that she totally gave up her career for her children and now feels regret that she "lost herself" by staying home. Just interesting stuff. Check it out if you can see a re-run later (it is on again at 9pm in AZ).

This is a hot topic. I used to be embarrassed bec...

2007-08-14T17:06:00.000-05:00

This is a hot topic. I used to be embarrassed because all I wanted to be was a stay at home mom. But my career aspiration is to be successful as a mother and I am no longer ashamed of that. My little girl is only 18 months and I have had to work about 15 hours/week out of the home up until about a month ago and it was hard but necessary and I knew there was an end in sight. Now I am able to work strictly from home and only during nap times and I am very grateful for that (but still count down the time until I can be done with other work all together).

I am with you that I understand that everyone's situation is unique (I have a friend whose husband is psychologically incapable to hold a job) and I think it is important not to judge others when you don't know their situation. But I do feel being a mother is the most important thing I can do and i strive to be a good one. Plus, what other job lets you go to the park or to the pool everyday?

i love being able to stay at home with my baby! (....

2007-08-14T16:13:00.000-05:00

i love being able to stay at home with my baby! (...and hopefully more in the future.) we will never be wealthy; my husband is a social worker. we may never have a boat, a brand new hosue or money to take the kids to disneyworld (thank heavens for grandpas and grandmas who have already expressed a strong desire even though their only grandson is 3 months old!) but, i will be there to hear his first words, teach him to read on my lap, laugh with him at stoopid stuff, cry with him when we gets hurt and be there when he gets home from school ...just like my mom was for me. (LOVE HER! i swear she walks on water!)

i resigned from my teaching job before we went to pick tyson up from him birthparents. it was risky, but worth it. i have a small company that i run from our house, but it that ever starts to take over more of my time than tyson, i will resign from it also.

if something were to happen to mr. r and i would have to go back to work, i would. i would probably cry all the way there every day like so many of the teachers at my school last year, but i would do it.

i admire mothers who work because they have to. i don't always know who you are and i try not to judge as i know your two jobs must leave you totally exhausted. hang in there. i will say a little prayer for you.

I've also thought about this a lot although I ...

2007-08-14T15:24:00.000-05:00

I've also thought about this a lot although I haven't worked outside of home since 7 mo preg with our first. Have been able to stay home since that time. Hubs has always brought home enough bacon but the past few years I've done a little work at home, usually when the kids are asleep so it works out great. Now I'm teaching piano (from home) two afternoons a week, which I feel okay about but I don't want to expand much more than that, so I can be available for the kids all the time. A close friend of mine worked away from home the first year of her first baby's life; her husband had a very good job & she admitted that they just wanted the luxury income. That really bothered me. Also the fact that she would tell me stories about her baby having major blow-outs at daycare, and how glad she was that she hadn't been the one to clean it up! Something wrong with that attitude if you ask me.

I appreciate Leisha's comment about staying at home not ensuring anything -- making the time at home more quality is what I need to work on.

What a Hot Topic. Mrs. Dub, you did a great job o...

2007-08-14T15:04:00.000-05:00

What a Hot Topic. Mrs. Dub, you did a great job of not leaning one way or the other too much. This is a topic I struggle with a lot. I am the bread winner in our house hold. My DH is the stay at home parent for the most part. His mom babysits when he has to go to school and then he works a part time job at night so we treasure the time we see each other.

Right now I don't have the choice to be a stay at home mom so I don't worry about whether it is right for me or not, but I am a firm believer that it is a choice that should be made between a husband and wife and really it isn't anyone else's business. I know with my personality even working a few hours a week would make me a better mom than not, whereas my sister could be a 100% SAHM. And I don't believe if I worked part time that would be selfish, more out of sanity issues.

I read once (I don't remember where) that SAHM's spend more time with their children, but working mom's have more quality time with their kids. I am not saying I agree with that at all, but I am saying that the time I have with my son is time I make his time. No TV, just Noah and mom time.